• 8 heavy drones are.... FULL BS SET for 99% of bs pilots. No other medium ship can possibly mount anything close to bs capacity - no noses, megapulses, large smartbombs or rack of cruise launchers.


• Still thorax has both best gallente cruiser grid AND 5 turrets with appropriate damage bonus


• Vexor for isntance has ABSOLUTELY no advantage in anything, beeing DEDICATED drone ship


• Thorax bay is twice of both deimos and brutix while these are better gallente ships with similar role - close hitter.

• It can't be possibly set up as intended with med blaster to use bonuses because first it has no grid


• Second with 1 mwd any approach to blaster range is sure death without full tank with 1600 armor plate, even with it thorax with blasters only wont have any real power to compensate for hits during approach


• Thorax as a gunboat lucks slots, having 2 slots less the maller, since med hybrids are pain to fit on it using other guns will waste bonus, so there is no point to use med hybrids AND thorax


• Med guns by the way have so little advantage over frig one both in dps, and in case of blasters range, that practicaly there is no point in med guns at all, since they dont have real role now. Under 20 km frig long range hit good, beyond that its a bs range. And not to mention that med guns track about 10 times worse (!)


• Cruiser in a combat takes beating from all other ships and can't outrun bs weaponry, yet it is too weak to be real power against multiple smaller ships. In case of thorax drone bay allows to have extreamly rare combination of good firepower vs bs, frig guns vs frigs and practicaly max possible cruiser tank and HP all together. Once drones are gone thorax becomes 10 mil destroyer.

• 8 med drones.


• 4 med slots


• MWD bonus to sig penalty, not cap. (i.e. at level 5 cruiser mwd does not increase signature at all). Which is needed for approach, yet make it hard to orbit with mwd on forever


• 800 grid and probably a bit more cpu

• 8 heavy drones are.... FULL BS SET for 99% of bs pilots. No other medium ship can possibly mount anything close to bs capacity - no noses, megapulses, large smartbombs or rack of cruise launchers.


• Still thorax has both best gallente cruiser grid AND 5 turrets with appropriate damage bonus


• Vexor for isntance has ABSOLUTELY no advantage in anything, beeing DEDICATED drone ship


• Thorax bay is twice of both deimos and brutix while these are better gallente ships with similar role - close hitter.

• It can't be possibly set up as intended with med blaster to use bonuses because first it has no grid


• Second with 1 mwd any approach to blaster range is sure death without full tank with 1600 armor plate, even with it thorax with blasters only wont have any real power to compensate for hits during approach


• Thorax as a gunboat lucks slots, having 2 slots less the maller, since med hybrids are pain to fit on it using other guns will waste bonus, so there is no point to use med hybrids AND thorax


• Med guns by the way have so little advantage over frig one both in dps, and in case of blasters range, that practicaly there is no point in med guns at all, since they dont have real role now. Under 20 km frig long range hit good, beyond that its a bs range. And not to mention that med guns track about 10 times worse (!)


• Cruiser in a combat takes beating from all other ships and can't outrun bs weaponry, yet it is too weak to be real power against multiple smaller ships. In case of thorax drone bay allows to have extreamly rare combination of good firepower vs bs, frig guns vs frigs and practicaly max possible cruiser tank and HP all together. Once drones are gone thorax becomes 10 mil destroyer.

• 8 med drones.


• 4 med slots


• MWD bonus to sig penalty, not cap. (i.e. at level 5 cruiser mwd does not increase signature at all). Which is needed for approach, yet make it hard to orbit with mwd on forever


• 800 grid and probably a bit more cpu

• There is NO POINT AT ALL to compare light electrons to heavy electrons, because you can fit light NEUTRONS like its nothing, yet heavy ELECTRONS are the only real option to fit thorax with med blaster. And advantage of heavy electotron over light neutons is nowhere near 70%.


• Second point. Frig guns track about 8-10 times BETTER then med ones, now whoever say that 10 times of tracking is nothing is probably an old school raven pilot


• Third, traning for tech 2 frig guns is a week. Traning for med tech2 is a month on top of that. Moreover, you can put ANY tech2 frig guns on thorax with same result, but you have to use med hybrids tech2 to use the bonus


• Last one. There is no point of putting blasters because the problem with thorax is lack of weak spots. Then you have 8 heavy drones, full tank and frig long range guns you can do ANYTHING and do it good. What good will be heavy electonrons II (10 mil in gunnery on top) against 150mm rails if you will get webbed? Exactly. And the your main damage is not the guns, but drones, so you can trade the guns AND bonus to damage for 5x150 rails and be frig eater and bs killer.

• There is NO POINT AT ALL to compare light electrons to heavy electrons, because you can fit light NEUTRONS like its nothing, yet heavy ELECTRONS are the only real option to fit thorax with med blaster. And advantage of heavy electotron over light neutons is nowhere near 70%.


• Second point. Frig guns track about 8-10 times BETTER then med ones, now whoever say that 10 times of tracking is nothing is probably an old school raven pilot


• Third, traning for tech 2 frig guns is a week. Traning for med tech2 is a month on top of that. Moreover, you can put ANY tech2 frig guns on thorax with same result, but you have to use med hybrids tech2 to use the bonus


• Last one. There is no point of putting blasters because the problem with thorax is lack of weak spots. Then you have 8 heavy drones, full tank and frig long range guns you can do ANYTHING and do it good. What good will be heavy electonrons II (10 mil in gunnery on top) against 150mm rails if you will get webbed? Exactly. And the your main damage is not the guns, but drones, so you can trade the guns AND bonus to damage for 5x150 rails and be frig eater and bs killer.

• Ships get drone bay AND a parameter called "Drone Control" which is some N points


• To contorl 1 light drone in space takes 1 Dron Control point of a ship, med is 5 points, heavy is 10. Numbers for instance


• Then you can have a ship with drone bay of 300m3, but low Drone Control, so you will MAKE SURE that this ship will be using only light drones.


• At the same time you can make drone ships with really huge drone bay allowing them to have all range of drones and spares for lost ones, yet it will be completelty separated from the number of drones in a space at a given time


• You can have a mod whih will give percentage bonus to Drone Control, which will give APPROPRIATE bonus to all ships, because if you have bonus +1 drones per level, like vexor has, its nothing like +1 drones per level for say thorax, because drone bay is in fact the limiting factor, and if its not, +1 drone will always be the "+1 heavy one".


• If you have a lot of drone space but limited Drone Contorol you can in fact make drones VERY different, and drone useds wont whine "heavy drones can't hit moon now", because they will have option to have different sets of drones in a bay. Now 99% of the time drone bays are fitted with one biggest set of drones that fit

• Ships get drone bay AND a parameter called "Drone Control" which is some N points


• To contorl 1 light drone in space takes 1 Dron Control point of a ship, med is 5 points, heavy is 10. Numbers for instance


• Then you can have a ship with drone bay of 300m3, but low Drone Control, so you will MAKE SURE that this ship will be using only light drones.


• At the same time you can make drone ships with really huge drone bay allowing them to have all range of drones and spares for lost ones, yet it will be completelty separated from the number of drones in a space at a given time


• You can have a mod whih will give percentage bonus to Drone Control, which will give APPROPRIATE bonus to all ships, because if you have bonus +1 drones per level, like vexor has, its nothing like +1 drones per level for say thorax, because drone bay is in fact the limiting factor, and if its not, +1 drone will always be the "+1 heavy one".


• If you have a lot of drone space but limited Drone Contorol you can in fact make drones VERY different, and drone useds wont whine "heavy drones can't hit moon now", because they will have option to have different sets of drones in a bay. Now 99% of the time drone bays are fitted with one biggest set of drones that fit

• How much damage will thorax deal with 5x150 II before rupture gets in the range of autos?


• Does thorax have 5 times of armor, while rupture is in gang setup?


• And we are talking about very very very common thorax setup here and 20 km range, right? :)

• How much damage will thorax deal with 5x150 II before rupture gets in the range of autos?


• Does thorax have 5 times of armor, while rupture is in gang setup?


• And we are talking about very very very common thorax setup here and 20 km range, right? :)

Originally by: Hephaesteus

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I didn't read all the thread, but arn't Gallente supposed to use drones as their thing!!!

And as for a rax taking out a bs. Only if the bs pilot is hopeless.

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Originally by: Hephaesteus

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I didn't read all the thread, but arn't Gallente supposed to use drones as their thing!!!

And as for a rax taking out a bs. Only if the bs pilot is hopeless.

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Originally by: Garreck

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Wrong.The heart of my argument actually just took place when somebody mentioned that they can get 200dps with their rupture. My point is that the rupture (and any other cruiser) can begin doing that damage immediately.

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Originally by: Garreck

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Wrong.The heart of my argument actually just took place when somebody mentioned that they can get 200dps with their rupture. My point is that the rupture (and any other cruiser) can begin doing that damage immediately.

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• All cruisers and most hacs will lose ability to go for HP tank (I assume large shield ext are nerfed witht the plates). Which will practicaly cut the number of setups in half


• All cruisers wont fit frig guns, because they have unused grid and low HP, so they will always fit med guns. What we know about med guns? That they are not good. They can't hit small targets, they have very limited range for close combat and at long range bs totaly owns in a gunfight. Yet med guns take so much grid that if you go with them cruiser has nothing left to play with


• Cruisers wont be able to take hits, because cruiser active tanking sucks. So the only cruiser setup will be gank.


• Cruiser which is fitted with med guns, has no tanking worth very little. Frig size will orbit and laugh, if ceptor engages it will blow up such cruiser before taking any damage if any, because you can dive under med guns tracking way before it locks you. And remember that med guns have 10 times less tracking. 10 times.


• BS will be able to take out low HP cruiser in a volley at ranges beyond med guns, at close ranges it will take only 1 web to hit the cruiser with large guns. And in a world of fast lock bs like we have now cruisers will suck vs bs.

• All cruisers and most hacs will lose ability to go for HP tank (I assume large shield ext are nerfed witht the plates). Which will practicaly cut the number of setups in half


• All cruisers wont fit frig guns, because they have unused grid and low HP, so they will always fit med guns. What we know about med guns? That they are not good. They can't hit small targets, they have very limited range for close combat and at long range bs totaly owns in a gunfight. Yet med guns take so much grid that if you go with them cruiser has nothing left to play with


• Cruisers wont be able to take hits, because cruiser active tanking sucks. So the only cruiser setup will be gank.


• Cruiser which is fitted with med guns, has no tanking worth very little. Frig size will orbit and laugh, if ceptor engages it will blow up such cruiser before taking any damage if any, because you can dive under med guns tracking way before it locks you. And remember that med guns have 10 times less tracking. 10 times.


• BS will be able to take out low HP cruiser in a volley at ranges beyond med guns, at close ranges it will take only 1 web to hit the cruiser with large guns. And in a world of fast lock bs like we have now cruisers will suck vs bs.

• Thorax has 5 guns, grid to fit, bonus to damage. Some HP.


• Rupture has 4 guns 2 bonuses, grid to fit, Some HP which is not much bigger then thorax HP.


• All the stas can float aroudn 10%-15% to the advantage of one or another


• AND THORAX GETS DOUBLE DPS AND A COMPLETE SET BS WEAPON ON TOP OF THAT

• Thorax has 5 guns, grid to fit, bonus to damage. Some HP.


• Rupture has 4 guns 2 bonuses, grid to fit, Some HP which is not much bigger then thorax HP.


• All the stas can float aroudn 10%-15% to the advantage of one or another


• AND THORAX GETS DOUBLE DPS AND A COMPLETE SET BS WEAPON ON TOP OF THAT

• Are heavy drones a weapon? Yes


• Are heavy drones a closerange weapon? Yes


• Are 8 heavy drones a closerange weapon compared to set of med close range guns? Yes


• Can thorax fit long range guns together with drones? Yes


• Can thorax use these guns close to the stats of other cruiser with long range guns? Yes


• Will long range guns and drones of thorax be equal of 5 long range + 4 short range guns setup? Yes


• In case of short range guns and drones will it be equal of 8-10 short range guns? Yes


• Can ANY OTHER CRUISER fit 5 long range + 4 short range guns at the same time? NO


• Can ANY OTHER CRUISER fit 8-10 short range guns? NO


• Does thorax have half of other cruisers HP, cap or tanking? NO


• Does thorax have half speed or anything that really prevents it from using extra short range weapon? NO


• Does all of above means that thorax is a cruiser like any other with a DOUBLE of offence power? Yes

• Are heavy drones a weapon? Yes


• Are heavy drones a closerange weapon? Yes


• Are 8 heavy drones a closerange weapon compared to set of med close range guns? Yes


• Can thorax fit long range guns together with drones? Yes


• Can thorax use these guns close to the stats of other cruiser with long range guns? Yes


• Will long range guns and drones of thorax be equal of 5 long range + 4 short range guns setup? Yes


• In case of short range guns and drones will it be equal of 8-10 short range guns? Yes


• Can ANY OTHER CRUISER fit 5 long range + 4 short range guns at the same time? NO


• Can ANY OTHER CRUISER fit 8-10 short range guns? NO


• Does thorax have half of other cruisers HP, cap or tanking? NO


• Does thorax have half speed or anything that really prevents it from using extra short range weapon? NO


• Does all of above means that thorax is a cruiser like any other with a DOUBLE of offence power? Yes

Originally by: Garreck

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Originally by: Nomen Nescio

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Can thorax use these guns close to the stats of other cruiser with long range guns? Yes

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Thorax sacrifices more grid and low slots to fit said weapons, allowing other long range setups (namely the rupture) to fit damage or tracking mods...maybe both...somebody check me on that? Anyway...thorax is distinctly at a disadvantage at long range.

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• 200mm rail: norm 0.41, optimal 18km, falloff 10km, 180 grid


• 720s how: norm 0.36, optimal 20km, falloff 17.5km, 250 grid


• Fitting 5x200mm = 900 grid, 4x720 = 1000


• Damage: base advantage for rail is 13%. Advantage of 5 guns vs 4 is 25%. With 1st bonus the same for both ships, second rupture bonus will NEGATE advantage of 5 guns only at level 4, at max skill level rupture gets 5% bonus rof. With 13% base rail dps advantage. AT LEVEL 5 RUPTURE STILL HAS STILL LOWER NORM DPS for guns


• Tracking is the same

Originally by: Garreck

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Originally by: Nomen Nescio

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Can thorax use these guns close to the stats of other cruiser with long range guns? Yes

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Thorax sacrifices more grid and low slots to fit said weapons, allowing other long range setups (namely the rupture) to fit damage or tracking mods...maybe both...somebody check me on that? Anyway...thorax is distinctly at a disadvantage at long range.

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• 200mm rail: norm 0.41, optimal 18km, falloff 10km, 180 grid


• 720s how: norm 0.36, optimal 20km, falloff 17.5km, 250 grid


• Fitting 5x200mm = 900 grid, 4x720 = 1000


• Damage: base advantage for rail is 13%. Advantage of 5 guns vs 4 is 25%. With 1st bonus the same for both ships, second rupture bonus will NEGATE advantage of 5 guns only at level 4, at max skill level rupture gets 5% bonus rof. With 13% base rail dps advantage. AT LEVEL 5 RUPTURE STILL HAS STILL LOWER NORM DPS for guns


• Tracking is the same

Originally by: Toshiro Khan

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Objection over ruled... 200mms should be compaired to 650s. compairing the 720 to the 200mm and using its fittings as the basis of your argument is showing the court you don't know what your talking about.

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• 650mm art: norm 0.31, optimal 16km, falloff 17.5km, 200 grid


• 200mm rail: norm 0.41, optimal 18km, falloff 10km, 180 grid


• Fitting 5x200mm = 900 grid, 4x650 = 800 grid


• Damage: base advantage for rail is 32% !!!! Instead of 13% for hows. Defence is gotta be kidding. 32% of dps for 200 grid difference between 720s setup. If defence is so stuburn 650s it is.

Originally by: Toshiro Khan

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Objection over ruled... 200mms should be compaired to 650s. compairing the 720 to the 200mm and using its fittings as the basis of your argument is showing the court you don't know what your talking about.

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• 650mm art: norm 0.31, optimal 16km, falloff 17.5km, 200 grid


• 200mm rail: norm 0.41, optimal 18km, falloff 10km, 180 grid


• Fitting 5x200mm = 900 grid, 4x650 = 800 grid


• Damage: base advantage for rail is 32% !!!! Instead of 13% for hows. Defence is gotta be kidding. 32% of dps for 200 grid difference between 720s setup. If defence is so stuburn 650s it is.

• Rupture and thorax are good long range


• Why thorax has more drones then rupture for close range?

• Rupture and thorax are good long range


• Why thorax has more drones then rupture for close range?

Originally by: DigitalCommunist

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Wish that many people cared about removing instas :\

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Originally by: DigitalCommunist

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Wish that many people cared about removing instas :\

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Originally by: DigitalCommunist

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Wish that many people cared about removing instas :\

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